IGBOZURUOKE FORUM

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo

Senator Femi Okurounmu, an Afenifere chieftain and chairman of the Presidential Advisory Committee on National Conference, believes that Nigeria cannot move forward unless it is restructured. In this interview with ADEWALE AJAYI, he speaks on the Muhammadu Buhari administration, economy and anti-corruption war, among others

For several years, Nigerians have been complaining about government performance and no administration seems to have satisfied them. How did we get it wrong as a nation?

We got it wrong from the time army took over governance in this country in January 1966. That was when Nigeria started going in the wrong direction. Secondly, the inexperienced army officers, who have no slightest idea on how to run a nation, took over governance. And more fundamentally, they began to run a unitary system of government, which is peculiar to the army in order to maintain control over the entire army.

They changed from the federal system, which we had from 1960 to a unitary system, and by the time they were leaving, it was this unitary system they handed over and we have been operating that unitary system since then. It is that unitary system that has crippled the country as well as made us to be on reverse gear. Since January 1966, Nigeria has been moving backward.

But Nigeria has been under civil rule in the last 18 years…

You will remember that before the 1999 election, the National Democratic Coalition (NADECO) insisted that there must be a National Conference and a new constitution before we go back to civil rule.

It was one of the major points, which NADECO remained adamant on but General Abdulsalami Abubakar conceded so many things by cancelling the previous parties General Sani Abacha was running. He cancelled Abacha’s transition programme, started a new one and prevailed on us to participate in the new transition programme.

But NADECO was divided; some felt we should not take part in the election until we had a National Conference and new constitution, while some felt that people will see us as too adamant and demanding, that after all, the man has made so many concessions.

So, reluctantly we took part in the 1999 election with an understanding. And the understanding we reached with General Abubakar was that as soon as a new government was formed, the first order of the day would be a National Conference.

Why was it difficult to have it then?

That was where Chief Olusegun Obasanjo began to let Nigerians down. When we turned to Obasanjo to have the National Conference, he turned deaf ears. For all the eight years he was president, he turned deaf ears.

The only time he thought of having something that resembled a conference was in 2005, when he had the National Political Reform Conference and the only reason he did that was to have a third term. His principal goal of organising that conference was to get a third term; to get the constitution amended, so that he could have a third term. It was purely for a selfish interest.

The present administration is almost two years in office, how would you assess the Muhammadu Buhari administration?

To me, he has not performed in any area at all; even in the fight against corruption, he has not performed up to expectation. We expected Buhari to tackle corruption head on and make people to fear to undertake any act of corruption at this point in his government.

Now, tell me, how many people have been jailed for corruption since Buhari got to power? I don’t know of any. They have recovered some money, yes, but nobody has been sent to jail for corrupt enrichment; none of those they recovered money from has been sent to jail. If the price you pay for being corrupt is that you will lose some of the money, you still have some they cannot get back.

If the maximum price you pay is that government will get some of it back, you still have some to keep. Is that a deterrent for corruption? Does that one stop people from being corrupt? Is that a check on corruption? Is that not an inducement for people to be corrupt and steal huge sums of money, so that if you steal enough, you will still have some left with you by the time they collect what they want to collect.

In fact, it is an encouragement to corruption. So, recovering money alone without jailing the people does not fight corruption, it encourages corruption. Again, a lot of noise being made by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) about chasing people who are corrupt and so on is made about the opposition members. Hardly do they go after All Progressives Congress (APC) members.

Are APC members angels? Half of those in APC today were once in Peoples Democratic Party (PDP); the same PDP that is being accused of corruption since 1999. A lot of them before the 2015 elections crossed over and became part of APC. Did they become saints overnight just because they are now in APC?

When we say we are going after corrupt people, we are not going after those in APC. A lot of PDP members, who were corrupt see APC members as sacred cows and many of them crossed over to APC to save their necks because the fight is selective, it is only against PDP elements. It is safe for those who have skeleton in their cupboards to cross over to APC because nothing will happen to them. A man who is fighting corruption cannot be surrounded by people who are very corrupt; whose corruption has been exposed to the whole world and yet he does nothing to them.

When whistle blowers blow the whistle and expose his men, it is the whistle blower they go after instead of going after the people who have been exposed. Look at what happened to Hon. Abdulmimin Jibrin, when he exposed the budget padding in the House of Representatives and how much some principal officers were taking home to run their offices.

To prove that he was not talking nonsense, he said he himself participated in the sharing and got N600 million. Instead of arresting all of them and jail them, it was Jibrin they are dealing with while the principal officers are riding high, and the money sharing in the National Assembly is still going on.

So, in what way is Buhari fighting corruption? When you talk about the former National Security Adviser (NSA), Colonel Sambo Dasuki; he is a man they have been pursuing because he diverted some funds into former President Goodluck Jonathan campaign. I think we need to investigate from where Buhari got money for his own campaign, money for his nomination form and all the money paid to delegates to vote for him. I know that all state governments in the South-West contributed.

They donated money and mobilised delegates for him at the APC presidential primary. This was done under instruction, so that Buhari can emerge as their candidate. The money many of them could have used to pay salaries went into Buhari’s campaign and nomination. After the election, they couldn’t pay salaries. So, why is nobody talking about that? Buhari has always said he is a poor man, but from where did he get money for his campaign?

Nigerians are complaining about the state of economy, and it seems that it is beyond the APC to fix it…

The economy is not his (Buhari) priority. Anybody that goes into power has his priority. The Northern people, while campaigning for change and power shift, meant give us our power back; give us our Northern control back. That was what the change meant to them. It is only we in the South, who didn’t understand that.

We thought change meant we are going to stop corruption and improve the economy, but they have gotten power back, exercising and extending it. He is fulfilling his mandate to his people and his people know that was the mandate they gave him to bring their power back.

That is why within PDP, a lot of people cross-carpeted to APC because they wanted power back to the North at all cost. They left their own party to support Buhari. They felt whoever will bring power back to the North will get their support and that was why they sabotaged Jonathan because they wanted power back. In terms of amenities and distribution of projects, Jonathan bent backward to favour the North during his government, but what they wanted was their power back.

Buhari’s mission is not to fix the economy; in fact he knows nothing about the economy because he is not bothered about how he was going to fix the economy. So, it is not surprising that he has made the economy worse.

While picking people for his cabinet, he wasn’t looking for experts, who will fix the economy; he was looking for Fulani loyalists to occupy key positions. They don’t have to be experts in the economy, once they are hardcore Fulani loyalists, he is satisfied. That is why the economy is in a mess.

When you were in the Senate between 1999 and 2003, you and your colleagues maintained a moderate life style but that cannot be said of the present members of National Assembly. How did we get to this?

Again that was part of the problems Obasanjo created for the country. When we were in office during Obasanjo’s first term, he put up his best hands. It was then that we had the Independent Corrupt Practices and other related offences Commission (ICPC) bill, and that was when we started fighting corruption.

Even in the Senate, we fought corruption by removing the Senate president, Chuba Okadigbo for anticipatory approval of money under N500 million. We removed him from office because we believed Obasanjo really wanted to fight corruption.

As soon as we left, and he got his second term, he began to prepare the ground for his third term and he began to spoil the legislators. That was when the legislator started having what we called fantastic quarterly allowances.

Obasanjo knew that he needed them, so, he couldn’t fight them. People are afraid to tell him the truth. I read in the papers that since he left PDP, the party has been going down. That is typical Obasanjo, he will make you feel everything is good because of him, and everything is bad is because of others. If you look at the situation of things in this country today, Obasanjo is responsible for 80 percent of our problems.

Newtelegraph